Kim Smit of Sasolburg and Eugenia Daniels of Cape Town have both refereed women's Tests, pioneers in a sense in terms of South African rugby, for there are only three South African women who have refereed Tests and they are two of them. Here they talk to each other.

In 2006 Kim refereed two Tests - South Africa vs Netherlands and Spain vs Kazakhstan. Last year Eugenia, who Dad was a Test referee, refereed Kenya vs Uganda.

Eugenia Daniels (pictured, right): You are married and have two sons. What is it like being the only female in your household.

Kim Smit: I wouldn't have it any other way. I never have to share shoes, make-up or clothes (except rugby gear). What more does a girl want?

Eugenia Daniels: I have had some moments on the rugby field where I wished the earth would just open up and swallow me hole, what is your most embarrassing moment on the rugby field?

Kim Smit: I've had my fair share of embarrassment. Rugby poles falling into the field of play, props being sick on my boots but the one time that really left me red in the face was when I tore my ankle ligaments last year and the players had to carry me off the field. As we passed the spectators one guy smiled at me and said: "Ref, rugby is nie vir sissies nie." I wanted to punch him on the nose.

Eugenia Daniels: What is the biggest game you've refereed so far?

Kim Smit: I suppose in being a woman and doing what I do, everything that has never been done before is a big deal. Therefore my first Under-19 provincial men's game, Western Province vs Border in Stellenbosch in 2005, was a big occasion for me. I was only the second woman to take charge of such a game. Everybody was giving advise and well wishes. I remember André Watson entering the change room just before kick-off and telling to me to forget all the advice I got before the game. He said: "You are here because of what you do on the field. Now go out there and just keep on doing it." I still think of that today when I achieve something special. My first test match South Africa vs Netherlands is certainly also up there and my match at the Women's Rugby World Cup, Spain vs Kazakhstan.

Eugenia Daniels: The funniest thing a player has said to you on the field?

Kim Smit: Luckily I had nothing compared to what Roslyn has experienced. What did happen in one of the club games is that I penalised a guy for holding on. The tackler got up and we had a handbag situation. I called him and as he walked to me he began to explain his actions. I told him that I had everything under control and he shouldn't take matters into his own hands. Clearly frustrated with me for not listening to him he pulled my ponytail and started signalling to me in sign language whereafter he said to me: "Moet ek vinger taal praat. Hy trek my hare." Although I sent him off with a yellow I thought it was quite funny.

Eugenia Daniels: Biker chic vs Referee

Kim Smit: LOL! I knew this was coming sometime. Sounds out of the ordinary I know, but who wants to be ordinary. With both you make lots of friends and meet different kinds of people.  Both give you an adrenaline rush and with both you can come back to ground very hard. Biking is more my 'down time' and something my husband and I enjoy together. 

Eugenia Daniels: How would your sons best describe you?

Kim Smit: Sporty, loving, confident, humble and the youngest said cute... aahh isn't that cute? 

Eugenia Daniels: What facet of play for you is the easiest to referee and why?

Kim Smit: The ruck. It has a direct definition that makes it easy to understand. It's a very structured phase and once it's formed players seem to back-off. It's the only time in the game when I feel I can relax for about 1-2 seconds.

Eugenia Daniels: What facet of play is the hardest to referee and why?

Kim Smit: Scrum time. There are about 60+ things that can go wrong at scrum time. Having only two eyes and never being in a scrum situation before makes it hard. But I must say after our session with Balie Swart earlier this year I feel much more confident about my ability to manage the scrums. I sort of understand what the players are feeling and thinking, and I can see they appreciate me speaking the scrum language... not fluently yet but I'm getting there.

Eugenia Daniels: The first item you put in your bag when getting ready for a rugby match?

Kim Smit: My boots. A whistle, jersey, shorts etc you can always find somewhere. Reffing a game with boots not your size is just not on. You had to borrow me your cards twice in one day at the provincial 7's remember?

Eugenia Daniels: Sevens vs 15s?

Kim Smit: Sevens. I think it's the whole atmosphere thing - fast and fun. 15s is a whole new mindset and that's really where you measure yourself.

Eugenia Daniels: If you think back to the first game you refereed what is the first thing that springs to mind?

Kim Smit: It was a women's club game at the Puma Stadium. I was totally lost on the field - didn't know where to stand and when to blow my whistle. I think I blew the whistle only about 10 times in a 60min game. That includes to start and stop the game. Pretty good advantage one can argue. 

Eugenia Daniels: What is it like being a woman referee and doing men's games?

Kim Smit: When I run onto the field I don't think of myself as a woman. I'm a referee wanting to perform to the best of my ability. Players and spectators sometimes struggle with the idea especially when they disagree with a decision I make. It's always because I'm a women that they think I got it wrong. Players never expect much from me and once you've performed above expectations it's always a good feeling.

Eugenia Daniels: Being a mother and a wife and running a business is really time consuming and you probably don't get time to watch soapies but I'm sure you've seen a few of them. So if you could star in a soapie which one would it be and which character would you like to play?

Kim Smit: At the moment I watch only 7de Laan, and so I'll go for Gita McGregor. She knows what she wants and always get the job done.

Eugenia Daniels: If you played rugby which position would you prefer to play?

Kim Smit: No.9. I've always wanted to pick a fight with somebody twice my size.

Eugenia Daniels: Your proudest moment - going to the World Cup or your son being chosen for the Pumas Under-16's team and going to the Grant Khomo Week?

Kim Smit: They were both pretty spectacular. Going to the World Cup was a goal I had set and worked hard for five years to achieve. Standing on the field with two teams either side of you singing their national anthem gives you goose bumps. Being part of history was a very proud moment in my life. Dillon's making the Grant Khomo Under-16's team had the same level of pride with another kind of feeling.

NB. The Grant Khomo Week is the annual tournament for provincial Under-16 teams. Dillon Smit was chosen as a scrumhalf for the Pumas team last year.